68 responses so far ↓

• 1 Tessa // Sep 11, 2010 at 4:13 pm

  Out of curiosity, does anyone here know of any studies by the province on the economic impact on small community business of widening the highway? I don’t think so. A decision like that obviously supports some businesses, large scale and car oriented businesses, over others, such as local community based businesses that people tend to walk to.

  I’m not aware of any government studies on how the new street vendors will affect local businesses, either. Nor am I aware of any government studies on how road work and construction affects each business in the area that it’s being done on. Last I heard there’s also no studies on how moving the buses from Seymour and Howe to Granville Street affects businesses on those streets that are now without the same level of transit service. Bus service is constantly being changed in little bits – no studies there, either.

  In fact, I’m not aware of any city anywhere that does such wide ranging and comprehensive studies on the impact their policies have on every single local business, and you would have to look at each individual business, as these policies affect each business differently: some a lot, some not at all, some positively and some negatively.

  So why is government expected to study specifically this issue given limited resources? And if we’ll study business effects here, why not everywhere else? How much is that going to cost? What impact will that have on taxes? What impact will those added taxes then have on business? You can see where this is going.

  If bike lanes had the effect of transforming Dunsmuir into a business dead zone full of vacant storefronts then sure, I could see an argument that we should be considering business impacts here. That isn’t the case, however. So why is such a study necessary? It’s not the responsibility of government to make sure every single business can get cars right to their front door with plenty of on-street parking in front – that’s a completely unrealistic expectation in any part of the city, let alone downtown. It’s never been a realistic expectation, and those businesses clinging to that need will go under sooner or later regardless of a bike lane.

• 2 Mark Allerton // Sep 11, 2010 at 4:23 pm

  Ian: I notice a couple of times that you’ve described the Dunsmuir lane as a “trial”. While the Burrard lane was a “trial”, the city has consistently described the Dunsmuir lane as a “pilot”.

  There’s a reason for the difference. The Burrard lane is a temporary structure intended to help evaluate the right permanent solution for the bridge – and eventually will be replaced with a permanent solution, which may or may not involve structural alterations to the bridge. More likely not, given the apparent outcome of the trial.

  The Dunsmuir lane is not a temporary structure, in fact it is a permanent one (insofar as any street furniture is permanent) and the nature of the pilot is to evaluate the different types of lane separation, not to evaluate whether there should be a separated bike lane at all.

  As someone careful of their words as you are, I’m a little surprised you’ve missed this subtlety.

• 3 IanS // Sep 11, 2010 at 5:35 pm

  @Mark,

  You are correct, the Dunsmuir lane is a pilot, while the Burrard Bridge bike lane is a trial.

  And, while I thank you for asserting that I’m careful of my words, I think my misstatement of Chris’s position and my overlooking the trial / pilot distinction proves you wrong on that point. 😉

• 4 Gord Price // Sep 11, 2010 at 6:19 pm

  Every day, accoding to city statistics, more than 3,500 cyclists come downtown in the morning. What’s that look like?

  This morning, 4,000 cyclists started off on Georgia Street for the GranFondo to Whistler. This is what that looks like:
  http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/7166/

  Every day, 60,000 cycling trips in the city, and growing. I’d say that within half decade, more or less, the core of Vancouver will seem more like Copenhagen than other North American downtowns.

  For some, that is clearly a problem. I’m not sure why.

• 5 Morven // Sep 12, 2010 at 12:39 am

  @ Gord Price 54

  The development of downtown commuting bicycle paths is a bit like the HST. Both, in theory and in the long run, are sound policies except that in the short run, the process of consultation, implementation and citizen trust in the process is a bit strained.

  Also since downtown Vancouver has an urban form and an economic structure in my view, unlike any other major North American city, the possibility of resembling a European city in cycle use is at least possible.

  But there may be other differences that make Vancouver bike conflicts unusual.

  Five days ago there was a cycling and society symposium in England. One paper, by a Dutch economist compared the bike culture of Amsterdam and Portland, Oregon. While this was an abstract of the paper and I do not have access to the full paper, the economist came to the conclusion that in Portland, cycling was a way to resist against the dominant American car culture, whereas in Amsterdam cycling was perceived as an ordinary means of transportation and part of the Dutch culture.

  I found this a fascinating conclusion because Portland is similar in sustainability outlook to Vancouver and Portland, like Vancouver largely grew in the era of the automobile. Amsterdam, on the other hand originated well before the automobile era and its basic spatial structure is different

  If we are ever to have any consensus building in Vancouver, the consultation style might have to change to accommodate this idea. The concept that Vancouver attitudes to cycling might be based less on cycling as an ordinary mode of transport and more on ingrained resistance to the automobile might be one explanation of the visceral reactions on both sides.

  Armed with that knowledge, we should perhaps look for new ways of interaction.

  So, is the city listening?
  -30-

• 6 Mark Allerton // Sep 12, 2010 at 9:05 am

  @Morven 54

  Your HST comparison is an interesting one – in particular because unlike the Province’s introduction of the HST, the City’s introduction of bike lanes was a large and obvious part of a campaign platform on which the population actually got to vote.

  At first glance some of your suggestions about consultation sound sensible, but I have a feeling that for many of the consulted parties, the only kind of acceptable consultation would involve giving them the ability to veto policies on which the wider population has clearly expressed a preference.

• 7 mikef0123 // Sep 12, 2010 at 10:44 am

  It’s obvious to anyone who’s biked southbound on Burrard, stuck between a bus and a taxi passing on the right, that biking has not been given adequate consideration as an ordinary means of transportation. It’s something someone else might do, maybe to act out some ingrained resistance to the automobile.

  There can be no consultation to build ordinary bicycle infrastructure that is predicated on the idea that bicycle infrastructure is not ordinary.

• 8 Bill Lee // Sep 12, 2010 at 11:02 am

  Morven (comment 55) refers to this :
  7th Cycling and Society Symposium and Workshop
  6 – 7 September 2010, School of Geography and the Environment, Oxford
  http://www.tsu.ox.ac.uk/events/100906/ and Peter Pelzer’s short talk :
  “Bicycling as a Way of Life: A Comparative Case Study of Urban Bike Culture in Amsterdam and Portland, OR ” presented by Peter Pelzer, University of Amsterdam. (Though he is also at U. Utrecht sometimes)

  And to lessen the “roasting times of this 34 pound turkey” earlier Portland studies at http://www.ibpi.usp.pdx.edu/researchdigests.php

• 9 Jean // Sep 12, 2010 at 12:00 pm

  Am only repeating this for the benefit of readers here who don’t read other sources of information. From the City of Vancouver’s web site:

  “In the West End and Yaletown, nearly 40% of households don’t have cars. This compares to other multiple-family, medium density areas across Vancouver where 11% of households are car-free. More people in an area does not automatically mean more cars.”

  http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transport/livable/ecodensity.htm

  Meanwhile high-medium density residential population in City of Vancouver is growing because of new buildings. And more slated for construction.

  There are already thousands of new residents in the past decade living in the downtown area –a perfect captive market for downtown retailers.

  It takes time for people to reconfigure their own travel routes and transportation options.

• 10 voony // Sep 12, 2010 at 12:38 pm

  Morven, the economist you mention could be right to say “that in Portland, cycling was a way to resist against the dominant American car culture, whereas in Amsterdam cycling was perceived as an ordinary means of transportation and part of the Dutch culture”,

  but you could be too much on the errand side by explaining it only by building form of the city.

  Some sociology concepts on norm adoption could better explain this dichotomy:

  cycling in Amsterdam is the cultural norm. Arguably be in Portland or Vancouver it is not (yet).

  the cyclist minority want their behavior to become part of a cultural norm.

  Since the current cultural norm doesn’t integrate cycling, more than a marginal if not “deviant” behavior: cyclist minority need to enter in “resistance” against it.

  They even need to create conflict (like critical mass) and this one is eventually necessary to create public awareness and trigger a debate.

  When successful in their acceptation as part of the social norm (the reason for it require lot of consistence in the message, and dedication), the activist movement lost its “raison d’etre” and some other type of “majority” (like early adopter), come in play.

  Serge Moscovici, is a sociologist, among other, who has theorized all of it (one ref: Psychologie des minorités actives, 1976) and go as far as to say, that that is good for society (it opposes conformism to change and innovation)

  That is to say, that the cycling attitudes in Portland and in Amsterdam are different, because cycling usage is at a different degree of adoption in the social norm.

  …and don’t make mistake, Europe in that instance has not been very different than North america: by cycling track, pedestrian street, bus lane…all of them are generated all sort of epic conflict, no consultation process could have resolved…since they were breaking existing social majority norm (under a push of an activist minority : the later in date I have in mind, is all those bus lane which has mushroomed in a mid summer night in Paris, basically without consultation, save for the municipal election, where the bus lanes was part of the platform)

• 11 Morven // Sep 12, 2010 at 1:27 pm

  @ Voony 58

  Thank you for your considered response.

  You actually open a whole new area that potentially might enlighten the torrid bike debates.

  That is the sociology of bike lane consultation.

  Who knows, we might end up with a far more productive way of encounter between the two main (battle) groups.

  Any else want to weigh in on what might be a very important concept?
  -30-

• 12 Bill Lee // Sep 12, 2010 at 5:17 pm

  Mr. Price (comment 54) says “Every day, accoding to city statistics, more than 3,500 cyclists come downtown in the morning.”

  And we’ll never find out how many ever again as that was a Long Form question *22 on the census. So we will never get that number estimate again.

  See pretty maps in http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20090217/documents/tt1.pdf and think: to UBC, along Broadway and so on.
  Reverse the numbers and a huge percent drives for various reasons.
  And work outside the city, since the Vision is no more industrial land in this ‘green’ city.

  I keep on thinking that Vancouver should be mashed with Burnaby for better government.

• 13 DW // Sep 12, 2010 at 7:13 pm

  Here are my 2 cents as I have actually worked for a business on Hornby for the last 2 years:

  – Most of our clients are walk-ins who live/work in the area.
  – I would say that 20-30% of our traffic comes from people who drive in.
  – I would say that 10-15% of our traffic comes from people who bike and skate to the store.

  I personally don’t believe it’s going to be the next apocalypse once the lane gets put it. On the other hand, I will admit that this business sells products for which demand is rather inelastic.

  I have followed the debate on here and of course as “newly educated” noted on another thread, it has been the same folks from their ivory towers who are commenting (which is why I decided to comment on this thread since I actually happen to be on the ground.) I don’t know the full background of many of these posters, (particularly those who are opposed), but I would think that instead of using one’s intellectual energy on a blog, wouldn’t that energy be better served on achieving political ends?

• 14 Booge // Sep 12, 2010 at 8:27 pm

  bike lanes are here to stay. it is not really a matter of whether one favours them or not. it is just the way transportation and cities are evolving. the biggest opposition to them come from NA cities where we have the largest number of gas guzzlers and SUVs. NA drivers have lost their credibility and cannot see the future that is staring them in the face. The car culture is diminishing in importance. Gone are the movie drive-ins, Burger Drive-ins etc.. .there exist some drive-through services in the us because they are the slowest to leave their cars.

  In Vancouver cov council with balls are bringing about change. I support them.

  I am a car driver and a cyclist.
  PS 4000 riders in the GranFondo. Cycling is here to stay.

• 15 Morven // Sep 12, 2010 at 11:14 pm

  @DW 63

  I am sure it will come as a great surprise to Ms. Bula and even her critics that the blog posters apparently inhabit ivory towers and endlessly expend intellectual capital on a worthless pursuit.

  Actually, you do the blog posters, both for and against cycle lanes a disservice. What many us are dissatisfied with is the inadequacy of the “official” information.

  You may misunderstand the role of formal and informal media in public policy. The political end is not the uncritical acceptance of a bike policy. The political agenda is ensuring elected representatives recognize they have a duty of care and a duty of public trust not to blindly follow an agenda but serve the public interest by properly weighing up the costs, risks and benefits for Vancouver citizens, not just bike advocates.

  As citizens and as bloggers we are entitled to ask questions. And if the blog questions make bike advocates and elected officials uncomfortable, it is possibly because they are unable to control the agenda.
  -30

• 16 boohoo // Sep 13, 2010 at 11:40 am

  ho hum, more people dying in car crashes on the weekend and it barely registers in the news.

  so it goes.

• 17 IanS // Sep 16, 2010 at 2:01 pm

  At the risk of reigniting the debate, I just thought I’d mention that the August numbers are now in for the Burrard Bridge bike lane. Those numbers indicate an increase in bike use on the bridge of 6.8% between August 2009 and August 2010.

• 18 Tessa // Sep 18, 2010 at 3:29 pm

  Ian S: it’s important to remember, of course, August 2009 had a separated bike lane already installed, which means that over time cycling is increasing as more and more people try it out, even after it’s been installed, and as the network is continually expanded. I expect the Hornby bike lane will cause another jump in the number of cyclists who use that bridge. Good news!